Sunrise over Salford Quays

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JJWilliamson
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Sunrise over Salford Quays

Post by JJWilliamson » Wed Oct 16, 2019 10:25 am

Oil on canvas board 51 x 41 cms. Largely wet in wet.

I used one of my son's photos for this piece. He asked me if I could paint it and this is the result.
He's in Rhodes, Greece, at the mo' so I hope he likes it.

Palette: Titanium white, phthalo blue, Prussian blue, cad red, cad yellow, Paynes grey. I used Michael Harding and Cass Art oils.

Sunrise Over Salford Quays 16 10 2019 010 (550 pix).jpg
Sunrise Over Salford Quays 16 10 2019 010 (550 pix).jpg (100.22 KiB) Viewed 1938 times
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Macavity
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Re: Sunrise over Salford Quays

Post by Macavity » Thu Oct 17, 2019 5:34 am

Have you had a go at this subject before JJ? It feels vaguely familiar. Anyway much to appreciate here. Particularly, enjoyed the left side leading my eye along the pathway to the road and lights. I like the angles in your work and there is an emphatic one here...almost a right-angle, but not quite, which works well. The horizontals and verticals of the buildings play nicely against this. You've handled the reflections and rippling water with your usual expertise. The pink sky and that bite of light in the centre a painterly confirmation of 'sunrise'. The ambition is the dynamic of those white cloud lines swimming in sky/water.

enjoyed the experiencing the moment

best

mac

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Re: Sunrise over Salford Quays

Post by JJWilliamson » Thu Oct 17, 2019 7:27 am

Thanks, mac, for your wonderful analysis and impressions. I enjoyed reading your comments very much.

This is actually the first time I've tackled a cityscape of this size but I suspect you're remembering some of the reflections
in my series of angling ponds. If you substitute the buildings for trees you've got it. I'll post an example below.

Angling for Clouds 11 01 2019 (resized 600 pix) 003.jpg
Angling for Clouds 11 01 2019 (resized 600 pix) 003.jpg (153.24 KiB) Viewed 1911 times

The burst of sunlight and vapour trails caught my eye when Jack first showed me the photo, so it's good to know you noticed those details.
I thought they were part of the appeal; that and the delightful perspective. It's a good photo but I did play with it a bit. I'll post it below to
show you my starting point.
Salford Quays.jpg
Salford Quays.jpg (90.75 KiB) Viewed 1911 times

Thanks again for the super visit.

Best

JJ

PS

The photo is lighter in reality but it gives you an idea.

J
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NotQuiteSure
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Re: Sunrise over Salford Quays

Post by NotQuiteSure » Fri Oct 18, 2019 1:25 pm

.
Hi JJ,

terrific picture, for all the reasons mac articulates. I like the (unintended?) wintriness of the bare trees on the right hand side.
The only issue I'd take with it is aren't the sky and (foreground) water too light for sunrise? I'd like to have seen a greater expanse
of the water (colour) in which the buildings are reflected. I've been looking to see if you'd snuck a pigeon or somesuch in there.
Can't find one, which is for the best :) Good stuff.

Regards, Not


.

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Re: Sunrise over Salford Quays

Post by JJWilliamson » Sat Oct 19, 2019 7:06 am

Thanks, Not, for the excellent critique and suggestions.
NotQuiteSure wrote:
Fri Oct 18, 2019 1:25 pm
.
Hi JJ,

terrific picture, for all the reasons mac articulates. ...Thank you kindly.

I like the (unintended?) wintriness of the bare trees on the right hand side. ...They were intended and interestingly enough I was also surprised to see them so bare. Still, it is autumn, I suppose, so maybe not too surprising.

The only issue I'd take with it is aren't the sky and (foreground) water too light for sunrise? ...I think they are, yes, at least on this pic they are. My iphone has a habit of lightening my darks so it is a bit darker in reality. Still, I reckon I could go darker. Good point and one to remember.

I'd like to have seen a greater expanse
of the water (colour) in which the buildings are reflected. ...I've actually included more water than the original photo shows, and I have a realistic scale to adhere to. One friend from another art site suggested angling the path from left to right to trim some of the water. I prefer the open expanse so I know where you're coming from. Interesting, I thought.

I've been looking to see if you'd snuck a pigeon or somesuch in there.
Can't find one, which is for the best :) ...Ha! You know me so well. :) (I thought about it)

Good stuff. ...Delighted you liked.

Regards, Not

Best

JJ


.
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Re: Sunrise over Salford Quays

Post by JJWilliamson » Sat Oct 19, 2019 7:08 am

Here's a bigger version.
Salford Quays 16 10 2019 010 800 pix.jpg
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Re: Sunrise over Salford Quays

Post by Perry » Sat Oct 19, 2019 8:23 am

Overall, I think the painting is quite nice.

At first, the vapor trails struck me as strange. I assume they were made by airplanes (I can't think of anything else that makes vapor trails), but they seem to be running at all different angles, and I can't imagine planes flying around in the sky in all those directions. Yet the very same vapor trails are in the picture, so there must have been planes that were doing exactly that. Are the vapor trails actually cloud formations?

To me, the clouds look more natural in the picture than in the painting. On the left, they look more like brush strokes than feathery clouds; on the right, they look more convincing but also more puffy. This is my strongest criticism of the painting, that the clouds don't have a uniform shape across the sky, and so don't quite look real.

In the picture, the slender lattice of the crane makes an interesting contrast with the boxiness of the buildings. Perhaps it's just as well that you left it out since very slender lines are hard to make with a brush. If you had put the crane in and it came out too heavy, it would have looked amateurish.

The straight line of the land along the left of the painting is a vast improvement over the picture.

Your choice to take the yellow light out of the picture is interesting, but the result is still pleasing. The photo is darker and moodier, and I miss that moodiness in the painting.

You're just madly in love with the color blue, aren't you? Of the paintings I've seen, you always make the sky and the water a richer blue than the picture shows.

Overall I think the painting is well done. I also like the painting of the pond -- very much, in fact. The water is done well in both pictures.
If I don't critique your poem, it is probably because I don't understand it.

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Re: Sunrise over Salford Quays

Post by NotQuiteSure » Sat Oct 19, 2019 10:38 am

.
Hi JJ,

looks even better in the bigger version (though still too light).

What I mean about 'a greater expanse of water (colour)' was that the ratio of 'black' water (near the buildings) to 'blue' water (foreground) was increased (in favour of black). I'm certainly not keen on that 'path' idea.

I know they're not in the original photo, but I find myself looking at the sky to see if any stars or planets are just visible (rather them than birds! :) )


Regards, Not


.

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Re: Sunrise over Salford Quays

Post by JJWilliamson » Mon Oct 21, 2019 7:40 am

Hi, Perry

Thanks for dropping in to share your thoughts. Very much appreciated.
Perry wrote:
Sat Oct 19, 2019 8:23 am
Overall, I think the painting is quite nice. ...Thank you.

At first, the vapor trails struck me as strange. I assume they were made by airplanes (I can't think of anything else that makes vapor trails), but they seem to be running at all different angles, and I can't imagine planes flying around in the sky in all those directions. Yet the very same vapor trails are in the picture, so there must have been planes that were doing exactly that. Are the vapor trails actually cloud formations? ...Salford quays is close to Manchester International Airport so the skies are always streaked with vapour trails from the many passing jets. The water vapour emerging from a hot jet engine condenses to leave a white contrail, one that we see as a white streak high in the sky. They are often composed of ice particles.

To me, the clouds look more natural in the picture than in the painting. On the left, they look more like brush strokes than feathery clouds; on the right, they look more convincing but also more puffy. This is my strongest criticism of the painting, that the clouds don't have a uniform shape across the sky, and so don't quite look real. ...An excellent point and one that I'll address.

In the picture, the slender lattice of the crane makes an interesting contrast with the boxiness of the buildings. Perhaps it's just as well that you left it out since very slender lines are hard to make with a brush. If you had put the crane in and it came out too heavy, it would have looked amateurish. ...True on both counts. However, the crane will be temporary and I rarely include construction plant in paintings, unless they represent the central theme. The long artists palette knife, the one shaped like a trowel, would make effective thin lines, but it would be tricky.

The straight line of the land along the left of the painting is a vast improvement over the picture. ...Good to know.

Your choice to take the yellow light out of the picture is interesting, but the result is still pleasing. The photo is darker and moodier, and I miss that moodiness in the painting. ...The painting is actually darker than shown but my iphone has a habit of lightening my darks. I can adjust the contrast but then it darkens my lights :) . I have a touch of cadmium yellow in the whites to intensify the brightness but only a dot. I tend to avoid too much yellow when there's a lot of blue floating around. They don't mix particularly well, unless you're after a bright green. I could have exploited the peach more, for interest, although green is still a threat.

You're just madly in love with the color blue, aren't you? Of the paintings I've seen, you always make the sky and the water a richer blue than the picture shows. ...True again. It's just my way of developing the reality. I really don't want to produce photorealistic paintings, mainly because the photo would have sufficed IE why paint something that is already available in another form. I don't mind a double take, so long as the viewers quickly realise they're looking at a painting. That's the aim, anyway.

Overall I think the painting is well done. I also like the painting of the pond -- very much, in fact. The water is done well in both pictures. ...Thanks for that, Perry. I'm really pleased you liked the pond.
Your art critiques are very helpful btw. Thanks again.

best

JJ
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Re: Sunrise over Salford Quays

Post by JJWilliamson » Mon Oct 21, 2019 7:56 am

Hi, Not
NotQuiteSure wrote:
Sat Oct 19, 2019 10:38 am
.
Hi JJ,

looks even better in the bigger version (though still too light). ...No pleasing some people. :)

What I mean about 'a greater expanse of water (colour)' was that the ratio of 'black' water (near the buildings) to 'blue' water (foreground) was increased (in favour of black). I'm certainly not keen on that 'path' idea. ...Ah, I see. Well, the reflections are about right but I could crop the painting to have a look. The shape of available canvases sometimes dictates how you develop a painting. IE the addition of more sky and water can help to provide an invisible frame, one that helps the artist to present a realistic scale. I've also followed the rule of thirds (ish) with sky, buildings and their reflections, foreground water.

I know they're not in the original photo, but I find myself looking at the sky to see if any stars or planets are just visible (rather them than birds! :) )
...No stars or planets, but I'm now toying with the idea of a jet. :)


Regards, Not
.
Best

JJ
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Re: Sunrise over Salford Quays

Post by NotQuiteSure » Mon Oct 21, 2019 10:02 am

JJWilliamson wrote:
Mon Oct 21, 2019 7:56 am
'm now toying with the idea of a jet. :)
Toy all you like, but leave the sky as is. :)

Regards, Not


.

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Re: Sunrise over Salford Quays

Post by JJWilliamson » Mon Oct 21, 2019 5:08 pm

NotQuiteSure wrote:
Mon Oct 21, 2019 10:02 am
JJWilliamson wrote:
Mon Oct 21, 2019 7:56 am
'm now toying with the idea of a jet. :)
Toy all you like, but leave the sky as is. :)

Regards, Not


.

:lol:

JJ
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Re: Sunrise over Salford Quays

Post by Pauline » Wed Oct 23, 2019 9:21 pm

WOW.
Looks like a photograph JJ.
Macavity wrote:
Thu Oct 17, 2019 5:34 am
You've handled the reflections and rippling water with your usual expertise.
Totally agree.
I'm envious of your water. :)
Perry wrote:
Sat Oct 19, 2019 8:23 am
Overall, I think the painting is quite nice.
I agree.
Perry wrote:
Sat Oct 19, 2019 8:23 am
Overall I think the painting is well done.
I agree.

I'm sure your boy is thrilled to bits with this.
I will say, to be totally honest, I'd have preferred the original darker palette, but hey ho.
Great job. Well done. :D :D :D

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Re: Sunrise over Salford Quays

Post by JJWilliamson » Mon Oct 28, 2019 6:27 pm

Hi, Pauline, and good to see you on the board again. I hope all is well.

I'm so pleased you liked this piece and will definitely bear your comments in mind for future paintings.
The palette decision was deliberate but I did miss the peachy colours of the sky and, of course, the scene is darker in the original.

Yes, Jack was delighted and now I'm in the middle of the parliament building of Budapest at night. I'm using one of Jack's photos,
so copyright isn't a problem. It's bloody tricky, though. The horizontals and verticals are mind-boggling, to say the least.

Hope you're still painting.

Best

JJ
Long time a child and still a child

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