Shroud

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Basnik
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Shroud

Post by Basnik » Thu Oct 24, 2013 7:31 pm

As the marks resonated, did they sound true?

Could we tolerate margins of error or latitude?

Is there strength in that built by blue ink?

It is hard to see without certainty.




Why have they flown, gathered, shrouded?

Is the date significant? A memorial?

Or is it white noise reverberating,

striking parallels, refusing focus, insisting?



The shape of the cross is still distinct

but opening out, refusing definition,

never quite caught as an intention,

pinned on dimensions it wants to refuse.




This is a response to the artwork by Russell Moreton on the attached file. Hope it comes through.
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Poetics in Blue. The Fleeting Cathedral.jpeg
Poetics in Blue. The Fleeting Cathedral.jpeg (2.83 MiB) Viewed 829 times
bez prace, nejsou kolaci - without work, there are no cakes (Czech proverb)

Basnik
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Re: Shroud

Post by Basnik » Thu Oct 24, 2013 7:34 pm

Just to give some context that would be with the poem and artwork. The picture is of a blueprint of Winchester Cathedral onto which Russell has marked all the visitors with a pin and the exposed the lithographic paper to the sun, making the bird-like effect. The paper is pinned down on a board and dated - details that are not in the picture but are important to the poem.
bez prace, nejsou kolaci - without work, there are no cakes (Czech proverb)

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Re: Shroud

Post by Basnik » Thu Oct 24, 2013 7:35 pm

Sorry, it's so big.
bez prace, nejsou kolaci - without work, there are no cakes (Czech proverb)

ray miller
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Re: Shroud

Post by ray miller » Fri Oct 25, 2013 10:02 am

There's some striking lines, but much I don't understand.

As the marks resonated, did they sound true? - a fine opening line and "sound true" conjures up for me nails being hammered in.

Could we tolerate margins of error or latitude? - in what? Who are "we"? What's being measured?

Is there strength in that built by blue ink? - "built" is perhaps not the ideal word.

It is hard to see without certainty.




Why have they flown, gathered, shrouded?

Is the date significant? A memorial?

Or is it white noise reverberating,

striking parallels, refusing focus, insisting? - I wonder if you need insisting.



The shape of the cross is still distinct - is it? I don't see it myself.

but opening out, refusing definition,

never quite caught as an intention,

pinned on dimensions it wants to refuse. - another great line and I like the last verse very much. I suppose it would be even better if the 2nd line were followed immediately by the 4th.
I'm out of faith and in my cups
I contemplate such bitter stuff.

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Re: Shroud

Post by Ros » Fri Oct 25, 2013 4:30 pm

I think you need to shrink the pic and repost it - it's too big to really see at present. I felt the poem was really starting by v3 - the first two verses feel a bit like initial thoughts that you haven't shaped enough. I feel you could expand on ideas of margins of error, refusing focus but at the moment it's too diffuse and the reader would have to do too much.

Ros
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Re: Shroud

Post by Antcliff » Fri Oct 25, 2013 5:05 pm

Hi Rich,
Or maybe post the pic elsewhere where it can all be seen at one look and then link to it?

seth
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Save in the tapestries of afterthought.
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David Smedley
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Re: Shroud

Post by David Smedley » Fri Oct 25, 2013 7:23 pm

Hello Basnik, I cannot see what it is you are wanting the reader to glean from your poem, that it is abstract there is no doubt; is it then your intention for each reader to try and find there own meaning?, If so I could not find any, even coupled with the image it meant nothing.

regards..David

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Re: Shroud

Post by twoleftfeet » Fri Oct 25, 2013 9:08 pm

I hope this works for everyone..
Poetics in Blue. The Fleeting Cathedral small.jpeg
Poetics in Blue. The Fleeting Cathedral small.jpeg (376.22 KiB) Viewed 791 times
Instead of just sitting on the fence - why not stand in the middle of the road?

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Re: Shroud

Post by Macavity » Sat Oct 26, 2013 5:24 am

The title and poem made me think of the Turin Shroud. Interpretation/intention theme is interesting, but the placing of definitiion/intention/dimensions started up like a rap in the head.

cheers

mac

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Re: Shroud

Post by Basnik » Sun Oct 27, 2013 11:19 am

Hi,

Thanks for your comments and thanks especially to Geoff for resizing the image. This is perhaps more of site-specific piece as it to be displayed alongside the artwork, and the artwork itself is more than the image suggests as it's a cynotype pinned down under glass to give it quite a three-dimensional feel.

The structure of the picture being a kind of blueprint for Winchester Cathedral as I said in my post suggests the theme of faith and certainty that I was trying to address. The picture asks questions about what is defined, what is moved by time such as how the marks represent people but their marks change as the ink dried under a moving sun and thus created these odd bird-like structures. I wanted to explore resonance in terms of movement and a kind of sound and thus noise as in a kind of chaos that undermined attempts to structure and define. The Turin Shroud, Macavity, was a good suggestion but also a sense of meaning being shrouded too.

Ray, thanks for the criit. The 'we' is a general we for everyone. The what to measure is faith, belief, I guess. The word 'built' refers to it being a blueprint so it explored ideas of design and intention as opposed to realisation. Sorry you can't see the cross - my fault for the nt great reproduction and I am glad you like the last stanza.

Ros, and David, I think the issue of the meaning being too abstruse is valid. I normally try and be more concrete with my meaning but this prompted more abstraction. I did feel it opened up enough with questions for there to be the possibility of different negotiations of the meaning but possibly not.

I do appreciate your help with this - it's going to be part of an arts festival in Winchester, I hope.

All the best,
Rich
bez prace, nejsou kolaci - without work, there are no cakes (Czech proverb)

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Re: Shroud

Post by Antcliff » Sun Oct 27, 2013 11:47 am

Rich,
how would you feel about using the second stanza as the first....and maybe making the first the last? I think that would mean the poem comes in with a question more easily (initially) tied in with the picture.

And you would then also close on the theme of seeing without certainty..a theme, perhaps the main theme, of the poem.

Seth
Last edited by Antcliff on Sun Oct 27, 2013 12:19 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Shroud

Post by twoleftfeet » Sun Oct 27, 2013 11:57 am

Basnik wrote:Just to give some context that would be with the poem and artwork. The picture is of a blueprint of Winchester Cathedral onto which Russell has marked all the visitors with a pin and the exposed the lithographic paper to the sun, making the bird-like effect.
The paper is pinned down on a board and dated - details that are not in the picture but are important to the poem.
Hi, Rich

That threw me completely.
I think it would help if you didn't start with the current S1.
IMHO you are asking the reader to infer an awful lot from the word "resonate".

Also I think "blueprint" or some synonym could be usefully employed in the poem, unless it is too "obvious".

In S3
- maybe omit the duplication of "refuse/refusing"? Perhaps "defying" or "refute" ?

Geoff
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Re: Shroud

Post by Basnik » Sun Oct 27, 2013 12:22 pm

Hi Geoff,

I should have put the context into the original submission. Sorry for handling that clumsily. 'Blueprint' might work, yes, but the actual thing looks more like a blueprint than this blue print suggests. The doubling of refuse - absolutely right, needs to change.

Thanks for this,
Rich
bez prace, nejsou kolaci - without work, there are no cakes (Czech proverb)

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