(SHA 6) Move Along Now (v2)

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NotQuiteSure
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(SHA 6) Move Along Now (v2)

Post by NotQuiteSure » Mon Jul 15, 2019 5:56 pm

.
v2
Move Along Now


No more marching for you
darkie. Less it's back where you come from.
That ain't coal dust, won't wash off,
it colours everything you done.

Don't matter if you fought at Flanders,
don't matter who died on the Somme,
Palestine, don't matter neither,
best you be careful. Mind your tongue,

listen to the country cheering.
You think they don't know the score?
Don't matter how you served with honour,
boy, this was a White Man's War.


(Peace Parade, London, July 1919)




_____________________



Move Along Now


No more marching for you
darkie, less it's back where you come from.
That ain't coal dust, won't wash off,
it colours everything you done.

Don't matter if you fought at Flanders,
don't matter who died on the Somme,
Palestine, don't matter neither,
best you be careful, mind your tongue.

Listen to the crowds all cheering,
this whole country knows the score.
Don't matter how you served with honour
boy, this was a White Man's War.


(Victory Parade, London, July 1919)




______________________



Victory Parade
(July 1919)


No more marching for you
darkie, less it's back where you come from.
That ain't coal dust, won't wash off,
it colours everything you done.

Don't matter if you fought at Flanders,
don't matter who died at the Somme,
Palestine, don't matter neither,
ain't you paying no attention?

Look at all these people cheering.
The whole country knows the score.
Don't matter that you served with honour,
cos boy, this was a White Man's War.



.
Last edited by NotQuiteSure on Mon Jul 29, 2019 12:00 pm, edited 5 times in total.

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Re: (SHA 6) Victory Parade

Post by Macavity » Tue Jul 16, 2019 5:25 am

The voice is convincing Not, an effective break on L1, but the concluding line is not insightful. Perhaps if the poem could be personalised, individuals with names and specific descriptions, rather than generalised references, that concluding line would be more felt.

What struck me in this article was the comment Where are the Africans graves?

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-africa-28836752

best

mac

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Re: (SHA 6) Victory Parade

Post by ray miller » Tue Jul 16, 2019 9:54 am

I wonder how much this was influenced by Trump's latest advice to congresswomen of colour?
I'm out of faith and in my cups
I contemplate such bitter stuff.

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Re: (SHA 6) Victory Parade

Post by twoleftfeet » Tue Jul 16, 2019 10:57 am

Hello,NQS

No suggestions as to the actual text.

I may be reading this all wrong,but to make it ring true I have to imagine the Prez or whoever talking about all people of colour, not just Afro-Americans - as you well know,the USA didn't enter WW1 until 1917.

I think it would be better to set it in the 1946 parade, and just stick with Afro-Americans and Native Americans.
Just my view.

Regards
Geoff

PS I saw (or read?) recently about a brawl outside an English pub in 1944:
Some US military policemen tried to arrest some Afro-American soldiers for popping in for a pint,but the English patrons
weren't having it! :)
Instead of just sitting on the fence - why not stand in the middle of the road?

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Re: (SHA 6) Victory Parade

Post by NotQuiteSure » Tue Jul 16, 2019 11:03 am

.
Hi mac,
thanks for the read, and the link (loads more like that out there).
The ending relates to this, from the Guradnia: "Enthusiasm for the battle was widespread across the Caribbean. While some declared it a white man's war, leaders and thinkers such as the Jamaican Marcus Garvey said that young men from the islands should fight with the British in order to prove their loyalty and to be treated as equals."

I've tweaked and changed the title, hopefully who the speaker is should be a bit clearer now.


Hi ray,
the second line, almost certainly. Always nice to hear a golden oldie.

Thanks both.

Regards, Not.


.

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Re: (SHA 6) Move Along

Post by NotQuiteSure » Tue Jul 16, 2019 11:34 am

.
Hi Geoff,
I rather think you have got the wrong end of this particular stick :)
Trump latest pronouncements notwithstanding, this was prompted by a BBC4 program
on a black Scottish soldier called Arthur Roberts and the 'revelation' (to me) that in the
main victory parades of 1919, in England - the one in July, and the earlier one for/of
Dominion Troops in May - all who marched were white. The Dominion was 'redefined'
as only Canada, Australia/NZ and (white) South Africa. The West Indians, Africans,
Indians (etc) were effectively 'white-washed' out of the picture. Not to mention all
the other black/coloured British soldiers who also served (most famously Walter Tull).

(My N is a policeman denying a veteran the opportunity to march because of his colour
- hopefully this is a bit more apparent in the revision.)

Regards, ¬.


.
Last edited by NotQuiteSure on Tue Jul 16, 2019 4:46 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: (SHA 6) Move Along

Post by 1lankest » Tue Jul 16, 2019 2:56 pm

Hi Not, it’s good but I struggle with it.

“this was a White Man's War”

Would your average Tommy have said this in the immediate aftermath of WW1?
Was this really the prevailing sentiment of fighting men who had shared the trenches with the soldiers from the Commonwealth, had fought and died with them? I know there was racism still, of course, but would it have been expressed in such terms at a victory parade? I know the point is that many such heroes were not allowed to attend, but was this really due to popular demand ? I’m no expert, and could be wrong, but there are historical suppositions here I can’t overlook sufficiently to truly ‘buy’ the poem.

Ta,

Luke

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Re: (SHA 6) Move Along

Post by NotQuiteSure » Tue Jul 16, 2019 4:09 pm

.
Hi Luke,

good to hear from you again, been awhile.

In answer to your questions, allow me to direct you here:

https://www.thehistorypress.co.uk/articles/black-servicemen-unsung-heroes-of-the-first-world-war/

the Racism After the War section in particular (and the Peter Fryer quote).

Regards, Not.

.

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Re: (SHA 6) Move Along

Post by Macavity » Tue Jul 16, 2019 4:33 pm

(My N is a policeman denying a veteran the opportunity to march because of his colour
- hopefully this is a bit more apparent in the revision.)
I didn't realise that, like the angle. To reinforce the exclusion, and some irony, an option...
Don't matter that you served with honour,
cos boy, this was a White Man's World War.

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Re: (SHA 6) Move Along

Post by twoleftfeet » Tue Jul 16, 2019 5:02 pm

NotQuiteSure wrote:
Tue Jul 16, 2019 11:34 am

(My N is a policeman denying a veteran the opportunity to march because of his colour
- hopefully this is a bit more apparent in the revision.)

Regards, ¬.
Yes,it's clearer in the revision,NQS.

I'm still not convinced about the use of the word "boy" by a working-class Brit,at least not in a racist way:
It would be used by an older man to put a "wet behind the ears" youngster down,regardless of race.
I certainly experienced it growing up.
An English plantation owner in Kenya to one of his house servants,yes - that would sound about right.

Regards
Geoff

PS Do you only concentrate on WW1?
This is the amazing story of Jack Nissenthal from WW2. I'm surprised that nobody has made a blockbuster film about it!
https://www.bbc.co.uk/history/ww2peopleswar/stories/44/a2665244.shtml
Instead of just sitting on the fence - why not stand in the middle of the road?

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Re: (SHA 6) Move Along

Post by NotQuiteSure » Tue Jul 16, 2019 6:30 pm

.
Hi mac,
thanks for returning.

I didn't realise that, like the angle.
Thanks. Is it a bit more apparent now?

Don't matter that you served with honour,
cos boy, this was a White Man's World War
.

Four Ws? And James Brown? :)

Regards, Not.


_________________________


Hi Geoff,
thanks for returning and pleased that it's clearer.

As to 'boy', I mainly wanted it for the comparison with 'Man' ... Still, any alternatives? Most of the ones I've looked at originate in the US, and I've no idea if they were used here during this period. The always popular N word would just unbalance everything (though its use is well attested). Maybe I just need to just switch to
cos this, this was the White Man's War ?
(Though it's a lot of 'this' for one verse.)

WW1 only? No, I've no especial interest, I suppose it has just been more zeitgeisty of late.
That link was fascinating, thanks. Seems he was swept under the same rug as Bletchley. I'd not bother with a film though, but a nice six or eight part series, now that's another matter.

Regards, Not


.

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Re: (SHA 6) Move Along

Post by twoleftfeet » Tue Jul 16, 2019 10:25 pm

NotQuiteSure wrote:
Tue Jul 16, 2019 6:30 pm
.

Hi Geoff,
thanks for returning and pleased that it's clearer.

As to 'boy', I mainly wanted it for the comparison with 'Man' ... Still, any alternatives? Most of the ones I've looked at originate in the US, and I've no idea if they were used here during this period. The always popular N word would just unbalance everything (though its use is well attested). Maybe I just need to just switch to
cos this, this was the White Man's War ?
(Though it's a lot of 'this' for one verse.)

WW1 only? No, I've no especial interest, I suppose it has just been more zeitgeisty of late.
That link was fascinating, thanks. Seems he was swept under the same rug as Bletchley. I'd not bother with a film though, but a nice six or eight part series, now that's another matter.

Regards, Not

.
I think "boy" is fine in V2,NQS,
given that your intention was not to imply "racism" in that word.After all it is still a patronising and insulting term to use to any man who risked his life on a WW1 battlefield.

What amazed me about the Jack Nissenthal operation was that the Canadian "minders" were under orders to shoot him if he looked like being captured.He knew it but still went ahead.

The same was true,I think,of the "Code Talkers" - Navajo indians who volunteered for service in the Pacific campaign.
Their language was unknown outside the USA and was totally impenetrable to any cryptanalysis.A film WAS made of that story (WINDTALKERS) - unfortunately it was just a vehicle for Nicholas Cage and deservedly bombed at the box-office.

Cheers
Geoff
Instead of just sitting on the fence - why not stand in the middle of the road?

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Re: (SHA 6) Move Along

Post by Macavity » Wed Jul 17, 2019 4:12 am

I didn't realise that, like the angle.
Thanks. Is it a bit more apparent now?
Yes, but I wouldn't have worked it out. Could just be me!

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Re: (SHA 6) Move Along

Post by NotQuiteSure » Wed Jul 17, 2019 5:33 pm

.
Hi Geoff,
think I may have found an etymological justification for 'boy'
"Used slightingly of young men in Middle English, also in
familiar or contemptuous use of criminal toughs or men in the
armed services." Though it may be stretching things some :)

Considering, or as JJ would have it, fiddling with

Listen to the country cheering.
You think they don't know the score?
Don't matter how you served with honour,
this, this was a White Man's War.


(among far to many variations!)


I remember that film, though I'd blocked Cage from my memory!
Now it's going to bug me if I'd learnt of Code Talkers through that,
or from Tony Hillerman, damn. Do you recall this heartwarming
moment? https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-42146195


_____________

Macavity wrote:
Wed Jul 17, 2019 4:12 am
Could just be me!
Unlikely, but thanks :)




Regards both, Not.

(minor change to title).


.

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Re: (SHA 6) Move Along

Post by twoleftfeet » Wed Jul 17, 2019 7:12 pm

NotQuiteSure wrote:
Wed Jul 17, 2019 5:33 pm
.
Hi Geoff,
think I may have found an etymological justification for 'boy'
"Used slightingly of young men in Middle English, also in
familiar or contemptuous use of criminal toughs or men in the
armed services." Though it may be stretching things some :)

.
I'm not at all surprised,NQS - it makes perfect sense to me: to remind someone of where they are in the pecking order.
NotQuiteSure wrote:
Wed Jul 17, 2019 5:33 pm
.

Considering, or as JJ would have it, fiddling with

Listen to the country cheering.
You think they don't know the score?
Don't matter how you served with honour,
this, this was a White Man's War.


(among far to many variations!)
.
tbh,NQS - I'd stick with "boy".
A "put-down",even a non-racial one,is better than none at all.
NotQuiteSure wrote:
Wed Jul 17, 2019 5:33 pm
.
Do you recall this heartwarming
moment? https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-42146195
.
Indeed I do!

Cheers
Geoff
Instead of just sitting on the fence - why not stand in the middle of the road?

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Re: (SHA 6) Move Along Now

Post by 1lankest » Fri Jul 19, 2019 8:50 am

Very interesting and depressing reading. Thanks NoT. I retract my previous comments, this works very well and, as Mac says, the bigoted peeler’s voice rings true.

Luke

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Re: (SHA 6) Move Along Now

Post by NotQuiteSure » Sat Jul 27, 2019 1:09 pm

.
Thanks Luke.

Retraction appreciated :)

Regards, Not


.

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Re: (SHA 6) Move Along Now

Post by David » Sat Jul 27, 2019 5:01 pm

What is SHA 6? I expect I should probably know.

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Re: (SHA 6) Move Along Now

Post by Poet » Sat Jul 27, 2019 5:13 pm

I like this piece the story behind it was beautiful and rather sad though.

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Re: (SHA 6) Move Along Now

Post by RCJames » Sat Jul 27, 2019 10:27 pm

There were many many Latinos in the war - the men of color included them along with
African-Americans and Native Americans. RC

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Re: (SHA 6) Move Along Now

Post by JJWilliamson » Sun Jul 28, 2019 6:03 am

Reminds me of Christy Moore album I listened to recently, Not, and the song "Go, Move, Shift".

A worthy poem and a terrible indictment on the accepted attitudes of the day. It's SO bloody sad.

I think your revision has tightened this piece very nicely and I'm of the opinion that "Boy" is absolutely fine.
It speaks of perceived superiority and condescension, and it's often regarded as a put down, even to this day.

Looks done to me.

Best

JJ
Long time a child and still a child

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Re: (SHA 6) Move Along Now

Post by NotQuiteSure » Mon Jul 29, 2019 11:50 am

David wrote:
Sat Jul 27, 2019 5:01 pm
What is SHA 6? I expect I should probably know.
Been a while, but I refer you back to

https://www.poetsgraves.co.uk/forum/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=23761

Poet wrote:
Sat Jul 27, 2019 5:13 pm
I like this piece the story behind it was beautiful and rather sad though.
Thanks Poet.

RCJames wrote:
Sat Jul 27, 2019 10:27 pm
There were many many Latinos in the war - the men of color included them along with
African-Americans and Native Americans.
Hi RC,
any similarity to Americans is entirely coincidental :)
Thanks for the read.

JJWilliamson wrote:
Sun Jul 28, 2019 6:03 am
Reminds me of Christy Moore album I listened to recently, Not, and the song "Go, Move, Shift".
Had to youtube this. Prefer the version with the (criminally) underused Sinéad O'Connor.
JJWilliamson wrote:
Sun Jul 28, 2019 6:03 am
A worthy poem and a terrible indictment on the accepted attitudes of the day. It's SO bloody sad.
'the day' ? As ray pointed out, the attitudes are all too contemporary.
JJWilliamson wrote:
Sun Jul 28, 2019 6:03 am
I think your revision has tightened this piece very nicely and I'm of the opinion that "Boy" is absolutely fine.
It speaks of perceived superiority and condescension, and it's often regarded as a put down, even to this day.
True, but it does seem to send a lot of people (especially Americans) to the Deep South.
As if we can't do racism here :)
JJWilliamson wrote:
Sun Jul 28, 2019 6:03 am
Looks done to me.
Thanks, final (?) draft posted.


Thanks all.

Regards, Not


.

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Re: (SHA 6) Move Along Now

Post by David » Mon Jul 29, 2019 6:25 pm

NotQuiteSure wrote:
Mon Jul 29, 2019 11:50 am
David wrote:
Sat Jul 27, 2019 5:01 pm
What is SHA 6? I expect I should probably know.
Been a while, but I refer you back to

https://www.poetsgraves.co.uk/forum/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=23761

Ah yes. I remember now. I liked them. I don't like this one as much, but I think it could work well in a series. (So if I search for SHA 4 and SHA 5 I will find them?)

Cheers

David

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Re: (SHA 6) Move Along Now (v2)

Post by NotQuiteSure » Tue Jul 30, 2019 11:00 am

.
Hi David.
David wrote:
Mon Jul 29, 2019 6:25 pm
I don't like this one as much
Any reason (that may be used to improve it) ?
David wrote:
Mon Jul 29, 2019 6:25 pm
So if I search for SHA 4 and SHA 5 I will find them?
Yep,
though you have commented on SHA4 :)
(recently bumped due to unrelated ill-manners)

Here's SHA 5
https://www.poetsgraves.co.uk/forum/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=23948&p=203255&hilit=sha+stretcher#p203255


Regards, Not


.

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Re: (SHA 6) Move Along Now (v2)

Post by David » Tue Jul 30, 2019 4:47 pm

NotQuiteSure wrote:
Tue Jul 30, 2019 11:00 am
.
David wrote:
Mon Jul 29, 2019 6:25 pm
So if I search for SHA 4 and SHA 5 I will find them?
Yep,
though you have commented on SHA4 :)
(recently bumped due to unrelated ill-manners)
So I have! But I don't remember the ill manners at all.

Okay, will have a look at SHA 5.

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