Enfranchastisement (punctuated or unpunctuated version?)

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barrie
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Enfranchastisement (punctuated or unpunctuated version?)

Post by barrie » Wed Oct 15, 2008 5:01 pm

Version 2 - Punctuated.

Conversation with Balaam's
horsepiss talking ass
drifts into politricks.
Lies that come to pass,
smoothtruthful buttered deftly fed
down Adam's serpent line,
with Lilith, his succubus first wife,
dining on children sucking up life,
rib thief Eve
and Tubal Cain,
old Noah with his wine and rain.
Markets drain, economies shrink
when suited demons
drink too deep
on moon's own quiet.
In the dark that dulls the touch,
in the light that lies to eyes,
deafened ears that talk too much.
Just keep those gloves up watch your guard,
don't waste your time and try too hard.
Are rights all hooks?
Are lefts all straight?

Trust your local candidate!

--------------------------------
unpunctuated 1st version

conversation with Balaams
horsepiss talking ass
drifting into politricks
lies that come to pass
smoothtruthful buttered deftly fed
down Adams serpent line
with Lileth his succubus first wife
dining on children sucking up life
rib thief Eve
and Tubal Cain
old Noah with his wine and rain
markets drain economies shrink
when suited demons
drink too deep
on moons own quiet
in the dark that dulls the touch
in the light that lies to eyes
deafened ears that talk too much
just keep those gloves up watch your guard
don't waste your time and try too hard
are rights all hooks
are lefts all straight
trust your local candidate
After letting go of branches and walking through the ape gait, we managed to grasp what hands were really for......

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Re: Enfranchastisement

Post by TDF » Wed Oct 15, 2008 5:43 pm

hi barrie,

Again, you have managed some cracking wordplay here, mate. It was fun to read for just that, although there was also some lovely, mild-rant content that flicks a few switches. Got to be honest I drifted away a bit in the middle, the thing seemed to lose a little focus, for what focus it has. It comes around again nicely at the end though, the whole style sort of being dumbed down in a way, which works well at being being clear.. yet poignantly vague.

The choice to have no punctuation... a reflection of the relentlessness of wisdom and swirl of life?... or?

Nice one.
Tom
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Re: Enfranchastisement

Post by David » Thu Oct 16, 2008 7:39 pm

Now who are we duffing up here? Politicians or vicars? Fair play either way, I suppose.

Great bouncy rhythm too. Almost JCC like.

Cheers

David

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Re: Enfranchastisement

Post by Oskar » Thu Oct 16, 2008 11:08 pm

Barrie

This builds and builds like Grieg's In the Hall of the Mountain King. It has the same gleeful, demonic momentum and throws up similar sorts of pictures. It also reminded me of one of my favourite Barrie poems called The Luna (?)

I still want to change the ass to arse, but that's my southern biarse I suppose.
barrie wrote:in the the light that lies to eyes
There be one the too many.

This takes more of a grip with every read and you had me Googling like mad to make sense of the Biblical references. Great stuff and very educational!

Cheers
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Re: Enfranchastisement

Post by Sulpicia » Fri Oct 17, 2008 3:34 pm

Hi Barrie
Really enjoyed this, though it has taken a few reads to get my head round it. A lot to enjoy.
I loved the beginning and the ending. It felt a bit less focused and vitriolic just before the ending:

on moons own quiet
in the dark that dulls the touch
in the the light that lies to eyes
deafened ears that talk too much

I wonder if punctuation would actually help here? I'm sort of feeling a full stop after quiet, but I'm not so sure what this bit is getting at...
On the other hand it does have a sort of unpunctuated momentum, a strong build-up as Oskar said.

The end of the world as we know it. Etc. Although it's nice weather for an apocalypse.
cheers
Helen

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Re: Enfranchastisement

Post by oranggunung » Fri Oct 17, 2008 10:05 pm

Barrie

I've not seen you produce anything like this before. The title is, no doubt, carefully chosen. The chastisement part suggests a rant to me, the enfranchisement is not so clear.

Politricks - this must be from the same dictionary as Westminstrough.

lies that come to pass
smoothtruthful buttered deftly fed


is glorious wordsmithery, imo. It seems a shame to hide it in an unpunctuated collage. (Shades of Beau?)

I can't reconcile the Biblical and political imagery. Does Helen have it right? I was left disorientated.

This is wonderful to read, and to listen to, no doubt, even without punctuation. Like the capitalization of lines, I feel the technique breaks down a little with more complex writing. Are you belittling your own more playful piece?

I feel like I've been served several cups of tea at the same time here, and not all of them are mine.


og

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Re: Enfranchastisement

Post by barrie » Sat Oct 18, 2008 12:16 pm

Tom, Helen, og - Thanks for the comments. I've been thinking about what you've said about punctuation, I think it might be worthwhile to do a punctuated version , see where it loses and where it gains.

David - No vicars or any other sort of shaman were hurt or referred to during the writing of this. It's just politicians and 'fat cats' who were the target today, oh yes, and all us lucky enfranchised people who live in free democracies. It all lies, money, paying pipers and calling tunes.

Oskar - I'd never use ass if I meant arse - I'm talking about Balaam's donkey type ass, not his arse type ass. I know politicians talk out of their arses, but Balaam was on his way to curse the Israelites when his ass began to talk to him.
There is one too many many 'the' - thanks for that.
Glad you remembered 'Lunar' - I was rather fond of that one too.

Thanks all

Barrie
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Re: Enfranchastisement (punctuated and unpunctuated version)

Post by barrie » Sat Oct 18, 2008 1:31 pm

I've come up with a punctuated version - Just need opinions on which one is the better.

cheers

Barrie
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Re: Enfranchastisement (punctuated and unpunctuated version)

Post by Danté » Sat Oct 18, 2008 3:03 pm

Barrie,

Personally I found the punctuated version better, I have been reading this on and off since early this morning, but did not want to insult your poem with an off the cuff response.

"Trust your local candidate" Now ther's an irony, the last one who knocked on my door shaved a few seconds of his previous 100 meter sprint. (not a great fan of them)

I am sure I will find more to enjoy with each passing read, it takes me a while to research and appreciate all that is woven in sometimes.

Great structure.

Many thanks

Tim
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Re: Enfranchastisement (punctuated or unpunctuated version?)

Post by thoke » Sat Oct 18, 2008 10:04 pm

It's better with the punctuation.

It's a bit obscure though. I have no idea what you're getting at.

Ben

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Re: Enfranchastisement (punctuated or unpunctuated version?)

Post by oranggunung » Sun Oct 19, 2008 11:53 am

Barrie

I don't like the idea of being stuck in my ways, but I'm much more comfortable with the punctuated version. Something about the care in sentence construction reassures me that the references have also been carefully (rather than randomly) selected. It feels more powerful in this format, rather than a torrent of consciousness.

becoming evermore firmly mired in the morass

og

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Re: Enfranchastisement (punctuated or unpunctuated version?)

Post by David » Sun Oct 19, 2008 1:04 pm

I don't think there's a big difference. That being the case, there's no point in going unpunctuated - so it's the punctuated one for me as well.

I'm sure that should be Lilith, though, and if you're going to punctuate you can stick an apostrophe in moons (and remove the double "the" from in the the light that lies to eyes).

Tis a good one, to be sure, though.

Cheers

David

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Re: Enfranchastisement (punctuated or unpunctuated version?)

Post by TDF » Sun Oct 19, 2008 1:36 pm

For what it's worth, I'm another punctation supporter.

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Re: Enfranchastisement (punctuated or unpunctuated version?)

Post by Oskar » Sun Oct 19, 2008 2:13 pm

Here's another vote for the scaffolded version, although a punctuated
barrie wrote:smoothtruthful, buttered, deftly fed
takes something away from the excellent original
barrie wrote:smoothtruthful buttered deftly fed
which scans so much better IMHO.
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Re: Enfranchastisement (punctuated or unpunctuated version?)

Post by barrie » Sun Oct 19, 2008 6:09 pm

Tom,Tim and Ben, thanks for your replies.

Thanks og - I think I prefer the punctuated version now.
David wrote:I'm sure that should be Lilith, though, and if you're going to punctuate you can stick an apostrophe in moons (and remove the double "the" from in the the light that lies to eyes).
Fancy me misspelling the name of my favourite demoness. I will stick an apostrophe in moons (and Balaams, and Adams) and I'll remove the double 'the' as I did in the first version. Then I'll chastise myself, but not with a scourge like some latter day flagellant - thanks David.
Oskar wrote: barrie wrote:
smoothtruthful, buttered, deftly fed


takes something away from the excellent original

barrie wrote:
smoothtruthful buttered deftly fed


which scans so much better IMHO.
- I noticed that myself. Maybe I could get away with leaving that bit unpunctuated.

thanks all

Barrie
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Re: Enfranchastisement (punctuated or unpunctuated version?)

Post by David » Sun Oct 19, 2008 7:46 pm

I think you should chastise yourself with a particularly fine single malt. Maybe two. And don't go easy on yourself.

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Re: Enfranchastisement (punctuated or unpunctuated version?)

Post by Elphin » Mon Oct 20, 2008 3:38 pm

Contrary as ever - IMO unpunctuated better suits the ranting qualities and if you are taking the liberty of making up words why would you want to stick to the formalities of punctuation.

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Re: Enfranchastisement (punctuated or unpunctuated version?)

Post by barrie » Mon Oct 20, 2008 11:45 pm

Thanks David - I took your advice. I have a bit of Tobermoray left, so I had some of that.
Elphin wrote:Contrary as ever - IMO unpunctuated better suits the ranting qualities and if you are taking the liberty of making up words why would you want to stick to the formalities of punctuation.
- Not really contrary - It was originally posted unpunctuated, I just went with the majority. You could say that there's a possibilty of agreement here somewhere.
Elphin wrote:taking the liberty of making up words
Taking the liberty, sir? No, sir. Just using freedom of expression, sir. Some daft bugger has to make up words, it may as well be me, or you, or you, or you.......

cheers both

Barrie
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Re: Enfranchastisement (punctuated or unpunctuated version?)

Post by juliadebeauvoir » Tue Oct 21, 2008 6:53 pm

Late to this one, I'm afraid. But I like the punctuation if only for the last line "Trust your local candidate!" Which makes the reader yell it like a cheer. Some favorites:
Lies that come to pass,
smoothtruthful buttered deftly fed
down Adam's serpent line
Markets drain, economies shrink
when suited demons
drink too deep
Had no problem with the biblical stories meshing in with politics. I mean if we are human then there is all sorts of politics going on: Adam/Eve, Jacob stealing the birthright, Lillith getting pissed off and creating her own 'political' party...etc.
Nice one,
Kim
Last edited by juliadebeauvoir on Thu Oct 23, 2008 1:39 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Enfranchastisement (punctuated or unpunctuated version?)

Post by barrie » Tue Oct 21, 2008 7:24 pm

Thanks Kim - Another one for punctuation, seems like that has the vote.
juliadebeauvoir wrote:Lillith getting pissed off and creating her own 'political' party
- I suppose you could equate Palin with Lileth, eating babies and things.......

cheers

Barrie
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Re: Enfranchastisement (punctuated or unpunctuated version?)

Post by juliadebeauvoir » Tue Oct 21, 2008 11:09 pm

I think it the other way around--Palin is Eve, the 'obedient' vice pres candidate and Lilith Hillary the 'kick out'.
Well you know what they say happened to Lillith..didn't she marry Asmodeus, King of Demons,? Oh yeah, thats about right...:wink:
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Re: Enfranchastisement (punctuated or unpunctuated version?)

Post by barrie » Wed Oct 22, 2008 9:33 am

juliadebeauvoir wrote:I think it the other way around--Palin is Eve, the 'obedient' vice pres candidate and Lilith Hillary the 'kick out'.
Well you know what they say happened to Lillith..didn't she marry Asmodeus, King of Demons,? Oh yeah, thats about right.
I once read in some old Jewish paper dating back to about the time of the Reformation, that there were two Liliths and that the lesser Lileth married Asmodeus. So maybe the greater Lileth's married to Bill Clintstone, and Palin's husband is (the state trooper eating) Asmodeus.

Pope Barrie-Innocence XIII
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Re: Enfranchastisement (punctuated or unpunctuated version?)

Post by juliadebeauvoir » Thu Oct 23, 2008 1:46 pm

I can't figure out for the life of me in the year 2007 why as of yet we haven't had a woman who is a candidate for presidency in the US. We (as the world) have had all sorts of leaders who were women; Golda Meir,Thatcher...Then present day leaders: http://www.guide2womenleaders.com/Curre ... eaders.htm

it makes me scratch my head. But this isn't a political debate forum so I will stop. Read the poem again--still great. More please!

Cheers,
Kim
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